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Michael Fish[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]
Male 1818 - 1886

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  • Birth  Abt 1818  Over Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location  [4, 9, 10, 11] 
    Gender  Male 
    Occupation  Weaver  [12] 
    Died  20 Sep 1886  Over Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location  [11, 13, 14, 15] 
    Buried  23 Sep 1886  Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location  [14] 
    Person ID  I445  Jacob Strong and Sarah Hill
    Last Modified  29 Apr 2015 
     
    Father  Richard Fish,   b. 2 Nov 1788, Lower Barn Blacksnape, Over Darwen, Lancashire, England, Great Britain Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Apr 1870, White Hall/White Hall Moss, Bedfordshire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Mother  Mary Waddicor,   c. 19 Sep 1784, Over Darwen, Lancashire, England, Great Britain Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 30 Sep 1866, Over Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Married  6 Jul 1823  Blackburn, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Family ID  F339  Group Sheet
     
    Family  Hannah Shorrock,   b. Abt 1815, Over Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 27 Apr 1877, Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Married  15 Feb 1836  Blackburn, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location  [16, 17, 18, 19, 20] 
    Notes 

    • The following is noted in correspondence written to Jay Strong from John Marsden in England on 17 August 1997:

      "The Lower Chapel register shows the birth of their (Michael and Hannah's) first child, William, later that year (they were married on 15 Feb 1836). 'William Fish born to Michael and Hannah (nee Shorrock). June 22nd, 1836.' These two pieces of evidence: that he was very young when he married and that he was described as a bachelor in the marriage register, are sufficient to convince me that there was no earlier wife name Emily. You know the rest of Michael's story from my first letter. There is an English saying, 'Marry in haste, repent at leisure,' and that seems to sum it up as far as Michael was concerned. It would raise eyebrows even today, an eighteen year old youth getting a woman of almost thirty pregnant. There was no such thing as divorce in those days, so once you married, you remained married. Yes, he did eventually leave his wife (in May 1862 according to John Marsden in correspondence with Jay Strong on 3 December 1997) but he was not free to marry again until she had died. He was about 59 years old when Hannah passed on and he outlived her by a further nine years--but they are buried together in the same grave." [9]

    Married:
    • Please see web tags.

      In a note from John Marsh (of England) and Jay Strong (a Strong descended from Jacob Strong and Alice Fish Walsh): "The Exact wording of the Fish/Shorrock marriage entry reads as follows:

      'Michael Fish of this parish, bachelor and weaver and Ann Shorrock of this parish, spinster, were married in this church by banns, with consent, this fifteenth day of February in the year 1836, by me Gilmour Robinson, (both parties signed with a cross; i.e. they could not write their names) in the presence of Joseph Fairbrother and James Neville.'"

      A marriage between Michael Fish and an Emily almost certainly never took place. It is highly probably that in the 1851 Census, Emilie was mistakenly inserted as the name for his wife, Ann. Please see Census for 1851. All of the children, including a new baby, are listed as being with Michael and "Emilie". He appears in the 1851 Census of Over Darwen with a wife Emilie and in the 1861 Census of Over Darwen with a wife Hannah. He had a child by Hannah (Ann) in 1851. Documentation of his marriage to Hannah (Ann) in 1836 has been found.
    Children 
     1. William Fish,   b. 22 Jun 1836, Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Yes, date unknown
     2. John Fish,   b. 29 Dec 1838, Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 9 Jun 1910, Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location
     3. James Fish,   b. Apr 1841, Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location
     4. Thomas Fish,   b. Abt 1844, Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Yes, date unknown
     5. Richard Fish,   b. 1848, Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 6 Mar 1922, Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location
     6. Jane Fish,   b. 1851, Over Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Yes, date unknown
     7. Michael Fish,   b. Abt 1855, Over Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Yes, date unknown
    Family ID  F293  Group Sheet
     
  • Event Map
    		Event
    Link to Google MapsBirth - Abt 1818 - Over Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsMarried - 15 Feb 1836 - Blackburn, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsDied - 20 Sep 1886 - Over Darwen, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Link to Google Earth
     = Link to Google Maps 
     = Link to Google Earth 

  • Notes 
    • !THE PARENTAGE OF MICHAEL FISH: There is a serious question as to who the parents of Michael Fish are. John Anderegg felt that Michael was the son of Thomas Fish and Mary Waddiker and that Mary subsequently married Thomas's brother, Richard. Jay Strong had a death date on Thomas of "1813." He was unsure as to its origin, but felt it may have come from the visit that John Walsh made to England to visit his relatives in the early 1900's. During that visit, John Walsh gathered oral genealogical information, all of which can be verified has been verified and has been found to be extremely accurate. In a letter from John Walsh that is in the possession of Gaylen Campbell, it is noted that Thomas Fish was killed, but it does not say how. Mary's marriage to Richard took place on 6 July 1823, which is the reason that Mr. Anderegg assigned Michael to Thomas Fish and Mary Waddiker. He was not, however, aware of the possible death date of 1813 for Thomas.

      John Marsden (a "Fish" relative), the English correspondent who wrote to Jay Strong (see sources), in his letter date 17 July 1997 delineated the following concerns:
      1. He feels strongly that Michael was the son of Richard Fish for the following reasons:
      a. Michael was "in attendance" when Richard Fish passed away, and it was Michael who informed the Registrar of Richard's death. This is generally the duty of the oldest son. If Michael was just the nephew of Richard, it would have been more likely that James would have assumed the responsibilities of the oldest.
      b. Neither Michael nor James (brothers or half-brothers, depending on who their parents were) were around when their mother, Mary, died.
      c. In the Anglican Church there is an absolute ban on women marrying the brother of their husband. Under no circumstances would that have been allowed, and at the time, ALL marriages had to take place in an Anglican Church, no matter the religion of the couple. Jay Strong, however, countered that all rules have their exceptions, and though he couldn't explain it, this was the information that John Walsh gathered and he was assuming it to be correct, because of the accuracy of his other information, as described above.
      d. The above facts have led John Marsden to conclude that Richard Fish is the father of both Michael and James, (a fact which John Walsh asserted in 1929).
      e. Michael married less than 18 months before civil registration was introduced, so there is no certificate to show who was his father. The birth entry linking Michael to parents cannot be located as the registers have gone missing, and are believed to have been destroyed.

      A counter to the possibility of Richard being Michael's father follows:
      In a letter to Jay Strong dated 11 March 1998, John Marsden describes finding the marriage record of Richard Fish and Mary Waddiker. The results are: Upon his marriage to Mary Waddiker, Richard Fish is described as a bachelor in the official record. Mary is described as a widow. Thus, if Michael were Richard's son, he was born out-of-wedlock.

      In a letter to John Marsden on 31 October 1997, Jay Strong enclosed an ordinance sheet for Michael Fish (were they done by John Walsh?) The Ordinance Index, Addendum 2, version 1.00 notes the following: Michael Fish. Birth: Abt 1817 in Darwen, Lancashire, England. Parents: Richard Fish and Mary Waddaker. Baptism on 5 Nov 1929; Endowment on 6 Dec 1929 in SLAKE; and S-P Pre-1970. The reference given is FHL film no. 184280, p. 609, Ordinance no. 14504, Salt Lake Temple.

      For the above reasons, the decision has been made to place Michael in the Richard Fish/Mary Waddiker family and to acknowledge that he was born out-of-wedlock.
     
  • Sources 
    1. [S111] Family Search, Ancestral File, v. 4.19.

    2. [S33] Professional Research done by John Anderegg.
      The entire family group sheet for Thomas Fish/Mary Waddiker was researched with the following sources listed:
      1)FHL film #087825: 1851 Census of Over Darwen, Lancashire, England, page 255, 35 White Hall.
      2) Parish Registers of Blackburn Cathedral, Blackburn, Lancashire; Altham, Lancashire; Accrington, Lancashire; Over Darwen, Lancashire. All received by correspondence.
      3) Computer File Index and Temple Records Index Bureau.
      4) FHL film #560876: Parish Registers of Lower Independent Church, Over Darwen, Lancashire, England.
      5) FHL film #560875: Parish Registers of Pole Lane Independent Church, Over Darwen, Lancashire and Parish Registers of Particular Baptists Church, Islington, Blackburn, Lancashire, England.
      6) FHL film #560892: Parish Registers of Wesleyan Methodist Church, Over Darwen, Lancashire, England.
      7) Cemetery Records of Over Darwen, Lancashire, (Church of England); Lower Independent Church, Over Darwen, Lancashire; Blackburn Cathedral, Blackburn, Lancashire. All personally searched in England.

    3. [S112] 1851 British Census.
      Class: HO107; Piece: 2261; Folio: 337; Page: 22; GSU roll: 87285-87286
      Source Information

      Ancestry.com. 1851 England Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2005.

      Original data: Census Returns of England and Wales, 1851. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK (TNA): Public Record Office (PRO), 1851. Data imaged from the National Archives, London, England.
      Household Members:
      Name Age
      Mich E Fish 35
      Emilie Fish 35
      William Fish 15
      John Fish 22
      Thos Fish 7
      Richd Fish 3
      Jane Fish 3 Mo

      Please see web tag.

    4. [S185] 1881 British Census.

      Source Citation

      Class: RG11; Piece: 4204; Folio: 106; Page: 26; GSU roll: 1342007
      Source Information

      Ancestry.com and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 1881 England Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2004.

      1881 British Isles Census Index provided by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © Copyright 1999

      Original data: Census Returns of England and Wales, 1881. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK (TNA): Public Record Office (PRO), 1881.
      Please see web tag. Listed as a widower.
      Household Members:
      Name Age
      Ralph Pilkington 49
      Mary Pilkington 52
      Alice Pilkington 19
      John Pilkington 17
      Mary Pilkington 14
      Jane Pilkington 12
      Eliza Pilkington 10
      Michel Fish 63

    5. [S183] 1861 British Census.

      Source Citation

      Class: RG 9; Piece: 3110; Folio: 79; Page: 22; GSU roll: 543080
      Source Information

      Ancestry.com. 1861 England Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2005.

      Original data: Census Returns of England and Wales, 1861. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK (TNA): Public Record Office (PRO), 1861. Data imaged from The National Archives, London, England.
      Household Members
      Name Age
      Michael Fish 44
      Hannah Fish 47
      John Fish 22
      Thomas Fish 17
      Richard Fish 13
      Jane Fish 10
      Michael Fish 6

      Please see web tag.

    6. [S1104] 1841 British Census.

      Source Citation

      Class: HO107; Piece: 503; Book: 11; Civil Parish: Blackburn; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 11; Folio: 35; Page: 2; Line: 25; GSU roll: 306892
      Source Information

      Ancestry.com. 1841 England Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, 2010.

      Original data: Census Returns of England and Wales, 1841. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK (TNA): Public Record Office (PRO), 1841. Data imaged from the National Archives, London, England.
      Please see web tag.

      Household Members:
      Name Age
      Michel Fish 20
      Ann Fish 25
      William Fish 5
      John Fish 2
      James Fish 2 Mo

    7. [S184] 1871 British Census.

      Source Citation

      Class: RG10; Piece: 4189; Folio: 15; Page: 23; GSU roll: 846943
      Source Information

      Ancestry.com. 1871 England Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2004.

      Original data: Census Returns of England and Wales, 1871. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK (TNA): Public Record Office (PRO), 1871. Data imaged from the National Archives, London, England.
      Please see web tag.

      Household Members:
      Name Age
      Ralph Pilkington 40
      Mary Pilkington 43
      Alice Pilkington 9
      John Pilkington 7
      Mary Pilkington 4
      Jane Pilkington 2
      Elizabeth Pilkington 6 Months
      Michael Fish 54

    8. [S29] Professional Research done by A. Boyd Nielsen.

    9. [S33] Professional Research done by John Anderegg.

    10. [S975] Jay Strong Letter from John Stuart Marsden, Personal Correspondence; 17 August 1997.
      John Marsden is a Fish relative who lives in England and corresponded with Jay Strong.

      Death Certificate received by correspondence from Somerset House, London, England. Michael was age 68 when he died.

    11. [S1103] England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915.
      Original data: General Register Office. England and Wales Civil Registration Indexes. London, England: General Register Office. © Crown copyright. Published by permission of the Controller of HMSO and the Office for National Statistics. You must not copy on, transfer or reproduce records without the prior permission of ONS. Database Copyright © 1998-2003 Graham Hart, Ben Laurie, Camilla von Massenbach and David Mayall.
      Died at age 68 in the registration quarter of July-August-September. Registration year, 1886.
      Please see web tag.

    12. [S975] Jay Strong Letter from John Stuart Marsden, Personal correspondence; 17 August 1997.

      "Michael Fish of this parish, bachelor and weaver and Ann Shorrock of this parish, spinster, were married in this church by banns, with consent, this fifteenth day of February in the year 1836, by me Gilmour Robinson, (both parites signed with a cross; i.e. they could not write their names) in the presence of Joseph Fairbrother and James Neville."

    13. [S33] Professional Research done by John Anderegg.
      Death Certificate received by correspondence from Somerset House, London, England.

    14. [S976] John Marsden Research.
      Correspondence dated 3 December 1997.

    15. [S975] Jay Strong Letter from John Stuart Marsden.
      Letter dated 11 March 1998. John Marsden described discovering information from temple-work submissions prepared by John Walsh in November 1927. From FHL film 0183529. Michael Fish: 20467

    16. [S975] Jay Strong Letter from John Stuart Marsden, Personal correspondence; 17 August 1997.

      "Michael Fish of this parish, bachelor and weaver and Ann Shorrock of this parish, spinster, were married in this church by banns, with consent, this fifteenth day of February in the year 1836, by me Gilmour Robinson, (both parties signed with a cross; i.e. they could not write their names) in the presence of Joseph Fairbrother and James Neville."

    17. [S976] John Marsden Research.
      Date of letter to Jay Strong: 3 Dec 1997.

    18. [S1096] Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936.
      In Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936, Image 517/1355.
      In Lancashire Anglican Parish Registers, p. 169, #506

    19. [S1101] England Marriages, 1538-1973.
      "England Marriages, 1538–1973 ," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6TY-42T : accessed 22 April 2015), Michael Fish and Ann Shorrock, 15 Feb 1836; citing Blackburn, Lancaster, England, reference it2, p169, no506; FHL microfilm 1,278,808.
      Please see web tag.

    20. [S1188] Marriages 1835-1837.
      Page 169, Entry 506
      Michael Fish, Weaver and Ann Shorrock, Spinster, both of the Blackburn Parish.
      Witness: Joseph Fairbrother; James Neville

  

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